I had originally planned to interview Peter Arnold at the Chewonki Foundation. He is the Sustainability Coordinator and is involved with hydrogen energy including fuel-cells. I made my questions and had been trying to reach him for a week until I found out that he was away until March 28th.
So for a back up plan, I decided to ask questions of the engineering experts working at Tesla Motors. Roy Harvie, an electronic technologist, took the time to answer my questions and gave me additional sources for my questions.
Q-I would think wide tires on the Tesla Roadster would help with lateral acceleration, but have you calculated the efficiency/range loss vs. using narrower tires?
A-Tesla has special tires designed to have lower rolling resistance but still be wide enough to be “sporty”, after all it is a sports car.
Q-How much do the Roadster batteries weigh?
A-The battery pack weighs almost 1000 lbs.
Q-What is the lifespan of the batteries?
A-The batteries are designed to maintain performance for at least 160,000 miles.
Q-Can the batteries be recycled?
A-Recycling the batteries has already been arranged. The batteries are made from lithium-oxide. They are made with strict environmental controls in Japan and do not contain common battery toxins like lead, mercury, cadmium, chromium and other chemicals. The batteries will be recycled by the company Kinsbursky Brothers/Toxco. Only the modules in the battery need to be recycled. The modules are ground up in a big grinding machine into 2'' pieces. The lithium-oxide and metal are then recycled and sold.
Q-I live in Maine and was wondering about the loss of battery power and range between freezing and -10 or -20 degrees F?
A-There would be some loss in range due to cold weather, mostly due to the requirement to heat the car and not because of efficiency loss in the battery itself. The battery has a built in heating/cooling system. The Roadster has the advantage of not needing to wait for an engine to warm up but can immediately get to work on the windshield using our electrically powered PTC heating system. We passed the defrost test with flying colors.
Q-How does the Tesla Roadster handle in the snow?
A-The Roadster has been extensively tested at the Continental Proving Ground in Arvidsjaur, Sweden. The anti-lock break system and traction control system were tested in extreme cold temperatures on a frozen lake. The anti-lock breaks have been adjusted so that they do not slip when they recharge the batteries during breaking since this process could cause the car to slide out of control. The traction control system is important because electric cars create so much torque at low speeds.
Q-If Tesla makes a car all-wheel drive, how much efficiency/range might be lost?
A-A 4-wheel drive version should actually be more efficient. Most of the braking energy is consumed by the front wheels, so the energy recovered can be higher in a front wheel drive electric vehicle. Tesla is rear only drive primarily to keep the cost down as a second motor and controller for the front would raise the price and also increase the weight slightly.
Q-Has Tesla tested the safety of these cars to passengers and first responders after they have been damaged in accidents, and how great is the risk of electrocution?
A-Tesla spent most of the first few years on battery safety, It is the only large battery pack certified for air travel in the world. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards are slightly different for electric vehicles in that they cover spillage of electrolyte and avoidance of electric shock rather than the spillage of fuel as in a conventional gasoline powered vehicle. We have therefore incorporated numerous safety systems into the battery box to prevent such dangers. The most significant of these systems opens the primary contactors during a crash event and thus completely isolates the high voltage system from the rest of the vehicle. This system when combined with the physical protection of the enclosure, results in an electrically safe vehicle.
Q Which do you think are more promising, electric cars or fuel cell cars?
A Years ago the car makers spent a lot of time and money trying to create a viable battery system for cars. They failed. Eventually they turned their interest to fuel cells. The Oil companies encouraged this trend because they know that they will run out of oil and fuel cells have the advantage that they could keep their customers coming to the pumps to buy hydrogen. Tens of billions of dollars have been spent on fuel cell research, many more times than batteries. The last thing the oil companies want is to see customers charging their cars at home. Mean while battery research continued and great advances have been made. It’s all about size weight and energy density, how far can you travel on a tank of hydrogen vs a battery pack? Which costs more? Battery break throughs are happening almost daily now and is leaving the fuel cell camp in the dust. There is no question that batteries are much more efficient, about 95% vs 50% for fuel cells. Charge time for batteries can be about the same as fueling time for hydrogen. In a few more years even die-hard fuel cell advocates will give up completely.
Q Will fuel cell cars be cost competitive with electric cars?
A No.
Q Do you think it will be more difficult to make hydrogen stations or battery swapping/charging stations?
A Who cares? Both are losers. Battery swapping is a bad idea, why swap when you can charge just as quickly?
Q Will this be a deciding factor in which car will be more broadly used?
A When a low cost battery can take a car 800 miles on a charge, the whole world will go electric. When you can charge over night and drive all day there will be no more need for gas or diesel vehicles.
Q Are you aware of any other possible fuels such as bio-diesel which be competitive with electric or fuel cell cars?
A No.
Q How long do you estimate that it will take the United States to transition into using only alternative energy cars?
A 10 years. I know most people talk about 20 to 40, but I think it will happen much faster. As soon as point 4 (800 miles a charge) is reached, no one will buy anything else.
Sunday, March 22, 2009
Thursday, March 19, 2009
Electric Cars for All! (No, Really This Time)- Response (11)
This is my second article about Shai Agassi but I think it gives more information than the first one, and it is clear that he has made even more progress in developing charging stations for electric cars. I didn't think it would be possible to make such significant changes and in only 2 and a half years!
I think it is interesting that he has two separate strategies for charging electric cars. For day-to-day commuting usage, charging does seem more desire able. It would be convenient if everybody had a garage with a charging station but a lot of people don't have garages. This probably will not be an issue because people could run charging cables from their houses to their driveways. In a city, the chargers could be attached to or coming out of the parking meters.
When driving over 100 miles, Agassi predicts battery switching stations will be necessary. I wonder if this means they will only be located on busy highways. If most people are charging at their home, their work, or retail stores, there may not be very many battery swtiching stations. This may be a problem on busy holiday weekends when many people are driving long distances.
I also thought the thing about teenagers unplugging everybody was pretty funny.
I think it is interesting that he has two separate strategies for charging electric cars. For day-to-day commuting usage, charging does seem more desire able. It would be convenient if everybody had a garage with a charging station but a lot of people don't have garages. This probably will not be an issue because people could run charging cables from their houses to their driveways. In a city, the chargers could be attached to or coming out of the parking meters.
When driving over 100 miles, Agassi predicts battery switching stations will be necessary. I wonder if this means they will only be located on busy highways. If most people are charging at their home, their work, or retail stores, there may not be very many battery swtiching stations. This may be a problem on busy holiday weekends when many people are driving long distances.
I also thought the thing about teenagers unplugging everybody was pretty funny.
Electric Cars for All! (No, Really This Time) (11)
This article was at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/technology/personaltech/19pogue-email.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=4&adxnnlx=1237492803-IV9cQ/erklwloS1W7JWFZg.
This is my second article about Shai Agassi. This article is actually an interview of his revolutionary plan to make cheap electric charging stations across the globe. He says that charge spots "will be everywhere, like parking meters, only instead of taking money from you when you park, they give you electrons. And they will be at home, they'll be at work, they'll be at downtown and retail centers." He compares the process to buying cell phone minutes.
"We sell miles, the way that AT&T sells you minutes. They buy bandwidth and they translate into minutes. We buy batteries and clean electrons--we only buy electrons that come from renewable sources--and we translate that into miles."
He says that this will cover any typical drive that is less than 100 miles. For long distance drives he explained his switch stations again.
"You want to go from Boston to New York. And so on the way, we have what we call switch stations: lanes inside gas stations. You go into the switch station, your depleted battery comes out, a full battery comes in, and you keep driving. It takes you about two, three minutes--less than filling with gasoline--and you can keep on going."
Agassi has already made progress in Israel, Denmark, Australia and Hawaii. He is even going to Ontario, the capital of cars in north America. He said, "It's about 2 and a half years of testing, from now till the mass release...For a transformation of this magnitude, it's immensely fast."
The charging stations will cost from $250 to $300 to install in a garage. A regular plug would work just as well but in the long run Agassi's station will save money because it pre-pays for the electricity and only charges customers for the miles.
When asked, "How do you stop teenagers from just walking by and unplugging everybody?"
Agassi replied, "No, you can't just plug it out. You need your keychain...It has a mechanism in there to avoid vandalism."
This is my second article about Shai Agassi. This article is actually an interview of his revolutionary plan to make cheap electric charging stations across the globe. He says that charge spots "will be everywhere, like parking meters, only instead of taking money from you when you park, they give you electrons. And they will be at home, they'll be at work, they'll be at downtown and retail centers." He compares the process to buying cell phone minutes.
"We sell miles, the way that AT&T sells you minutes. They buy bandwidth and they translate into minutes. We buy batteries and clean electrons--we only buy electrons that come from renewable sources--and we translate that into miles."
He says that this will cover any typical drive that is less than 100 miles. For long distance drives he explained his switch stations again.
"You want to go from Boston to New York. And so on the way, we have what we call switch stations: lanes inside gas stations. You go into the switch station, your depleted battery comes out, a full battery comes in, and you keep driving. It takes you about two, three minutes--less than filling with gasoline--and you can keep on going."
Agassi has already made progress in Israel, Denmark, Australia and Hawaii. He is even going to Ontario, the capital of cars in north America. He said, "It's about 2 and a half years of testing, from now till the mass release...For a transformation of this magnitude, it's immensely fast."
The charging stations will cost from $250 to $300 to install in a garage. A regular plug would work just as well but in the long run Agassi's station will save money because it pre-pays for the electricity and only charges customers for the miles.
When asked, "How do you stop teenagers from just walking by and unplugging everybody?"
Agassi replied, "No, you can't just plug it out. You need your keychain...It has a mechanism in there to avoid vandalism."
Monday, March 9, 2009
Obama Signs Stimulus Package- Response (10)
For a while now, I have been looking for an article on President Obama's stimulus plan. This article not only gave information about his stimulus plan, but was specific about different alternative energy grants and tax breaks.
Some of the features of the stimulus plan would benefit the development and use of electric cars.
For electric cars to really be green, they need to have clean sources of electric energy. I think some of the proposals for increasing solar and wind power would help renewable energy production. For solar energy, grants will be available instead of just a tax credit. These would offset 30% of the cost of installing a solar energy system at a business. Wind energy will keep receiving production tax credit through 2012. Wind energy developers also can obtain a 30% investment tax credit to offset the cost of installing a wind farm. These proposals could really help create renewable electric energy for uses like electric cars.
My research has shown electric energy delivery to homes and charging stations will have to improve. A significant amount of stimulus money will be used to improve our electric grid and the delivery of electricity. The fact that the government will fund 50% of the cost of smart-grid demonstrations projects and contribute $4.25 billion to build a grid that will shift power around the country, will really help deliver the electricity to the homes and businesses where it is needed. The Western Area Power Administration and the Bonneville Power Administration will also be able to borrow $3.25 billion each year to build transmission lines. I think these projects are essential for the country.
Some money will be used more directly to jumpstart electric car production and usage. There will be a tax credit of up to $7,500 for buying a plug-in hybrid electric car and a lower tax credit will be available to buyers of neighborhood electric cars, electric motorcycles and three-wheeled electric cars. I believe there should be an even greater tax credit for people to buy these relatively expensive cars. A larger tax credit would encourage more people to buy plug-in hybrids from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. This would keep more Americans working and paying taxes and keep these companies from going bankrupt. Selling more electric cars would also assist the companies in paying back the money they borrowed from the government.
Some additional stimulus money will be used for technology necessary for the transition to electric cars, including battery technology. There will be $2 billion in grants for manufacturing advanced batteries for cars and other devices in the United States. Batteries are probably the most critical element determining the success of the electric car. Progress in this area is absolutely essential. I think the range of these cars needs to be at least 200 miles per charge.
Obama's stimulus plan is a stimulus for the electric car, almost as much as it is for the national economy.
Some of the features of the stimulus plan would benefit the development and use of electric cars.
For electric cars to really be green, they need to have clean sources of electric energy. I think some of the proposals for increasing solar and wind power would help renewable energy production. For solar energy, grants will be available instead of just a tax credit. These would offset 30% of the cost of installing a solar energy system at a business. Wind energy will keep receiving production tax credit through 2012. Wind energy developers also can obtain a 30% investment tax credit to offset the cost of installing a wind farm. These proposals could really help create renewable electric energy for uses like electric cars.
My research has shown electric energy delivery to homes and charging stations will have to improve. A significant amount of stimulus money will be used to improve our electric grid and the delivery of electricity. The fact that the government will fund 50% of the cost of smart-grid demonstrations projects and contribute $4.25 billion to build a grid that will shift power around the country, will really help deliver the electricity to the homes and businesses where it is needed. The Western Area Power Administration and the Bonneville Power Administration will also be able to borrow $3.25 billion each year to build transmission lines. I think these projects are essential for the country.
Some money will be used more directly to jumpstart electric car production and usage. There will be a tax credit of up to $7,500 for buying a plug-in hybrid electric car and a lower tax credit will be available to buyers of neighborhood electric cars, electric motorcycles and three-wheeled electric cars. I believe there should be an even greater tax credit for people to buy these relatively expensive cars. A larger tax credit would encourage more people to buy plug-in hybrids from Ford, GM, and Chrysler. This would keep more Americans working and paying taxes and keep these companies from going bankrupt. Selling more electric cars would also assist the companies in paying back the money they borrowed from the government.
Some additional stimulus money will be used for technology necessary for the transition to electric cars, including battery technology. There will be $2 billion in grants for manufacturing advanced batteries for cars and other devices in the United States. Batteries are probably the most critical element determining the success of the electric car. Progress in this area is absolutely essential. I think the range of these cars needs to be at least 200 miles per charge.
Obama's stimulus plan is a stimulus for the electric car, almost as much as it is for the national economy.
Obama Signs Stimulus Package (10)
This article at http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/obama-signs-stimulus-package-5736.html gives information about different features of President Obama's $787 billion dollar stimulus plan.
A 30 percent investment tax credit will be available for companies that make equipment for renewable energy systems, energy storage equipment, smart grid, energy-efficient lighting, electric transmission and distribution and carbon capture and sequestration.
Here are some other provisions:
Solar: Grants will be available, instead of a tax credit, for offsetting 30 percent of the cost of installing a solar energy system at a business. Large-scale solar plants, often developed to sell power to utilities, also are eligible. This applies only to systems that are installed in 2009 and 2010. Projects that begin before the end of 2010 and put in service by Jan. 1, 2017 also qualify. The U.S. Department of Treasury will still need to work out the details of the program.
Wind: The production tax credit has been extended through 2012. Last October, Congress extended the credit by only one year. Wind energy developers also can opt for the 30 percent investment tax credit to offset the cost of installing a wind farm, instead of getting the production tax credit.
Businesses that operate small-wind projects can get a true 30 percent tax credit during the year the projects are put in service, instead of a tax credit that was capped at $4,000.
Smart Grid: The government could reimburse as much as 50 percent of the costs of carrying out smart grid demonstration projects. It also has set aside $4.5 billion for electric grid improvements, including the use of demand-response equipment; the money also will be used to carry out energy storage research and deployment.
Electric Transmission: The Western Area Power Administration and the Bonneville Power Administration will be able to borrow $3.25 billion each year to build transmission lines. The two federal organizations operate transmission systems that serve the western half of the United States.
Fuel-Efficient Cars: A tax credit of up to $7,500 for buying a plug-in hybrid electric car. The new law expands the previous legislation, making the tax credit available to 200,000 cars per manufacturer, instead of 250,000 for the whole car industry. A lower tax credit will be available to buyers of neighborhood electric cars, electric motorcycles and three-wheeled electric cars.
Alternative Fueling Stations: A 50 percent tax credit, instead of the previous 30 percent tax credit, for gas stations or other businesses that install alternative fueling pumps that dispense E85 fuel, electricity and natural gas. There is a cap of $50,000 per installation project. Hydrogen fueling stations would get the usual 30 percent tax credit, but the cap has been increased to $200,000 instead of $30,000. All these tax credit increases will be available only for installations that take place in 2009 and 2010.
Batteries: $2 billion in grants for manufacturing advanced batteries for cars and other devices in the United States.
A 30 percent investment tax credit will be available for companies that make equipment for renewable energy systems, energy storage equipment, smart grid, energy-efficient lighting, electric transmission and distribution and carbon capture and sequestration.
Here are some other provisions:
Solar: Grants will be available, instead of a tax credit, for offsetting 30 percent of the cost of installing a solar energy system at a business. Large-scale solar plants, often developed to sell power to utilities, also are eligible. This applies only to systems that are installed in 2009 and 2010. Projects that begin before the end of 2010 and put in service by Jan. 1, 2017 also qualify. The U.S. Department of Treasury will still need to work out the details of the program.
Wind: The production tax credit has been extended through 2012. Last October, Congress extended the credit by only one year. Wind energy developers also can opt for the 30 percent investment tax credit to offset the cost of installing a wind farm, instead of getting the production tax credit.
Businesses that operate small-wind projects can get a true 30 percent tax credit during the year the projects are put in service, instead of a tax credit that was capped at $4,000.
Smart Grid: The government could reimburse as much as 50 percent of the costs of carrying out smart grid demonstration projects. It also has set aside $4.5 billion for electric grid improvements, including the use of demand-response equipment; the money also will be used to carry out energy storage research and deployment.
Electric Transmission: The Western Area Power Administration and the Bonneville Power Administration will be able to borrow $3.25 billion each year to build transmission lines. The two federal organizations operate transmission systems that serve the western half of the United States.
Fuel-Efficient Cars: A tax credit of up to $7,500 for buying a plug-in hybrid electric car. The new law expands the previous legislation, making the tax credit available to 200,000 cars per manufacturer, instead of 250,000 for the whole car industry. A lower tax credit will be available to buyers of neighborhood electric cars, electric motorcycles and three-wheeled electric cars.
Alternative Fueling Stations: A 50 percent tax credit, instead of the previous 30 percent tax credit, for gas stations or other businesses that install alternative fueling pumps that dispense E85 fuel, electricity and natural gas. There is a cap of $50,000 per installation project. Hydrogen fueling stations would get the usual 30 percent tax credit, but the cap has been increased to $200,000 instead of $30,000. All these tax credit increases will be available only for installations that take place in 2009 and 2010.
Batteries: $2 billion in grants for manufacturing advanced batteries for cars and other devices in the United States.
Friday, March 6, 2009
Final Focus; Further Research Needed
When I wrote my Blog Analysis essay, I discovered I needed to know more about Obama's stimulus package. In the future, I will research and write blog posts about Obama's stimulus plan and how it will benefit the production of electric cars.
One of my first tasks will be to find specific information about the stimulus plan, including the amount of money that will go to specific projects affecting electric cars. For electric cars to be better for the environment, the electricity they use must come from clean sources. I know some money is going towards renewable energy sources needed to cleanly support a nation full of plug-in electric cars.
President Obama's stimulus bill has given billions of dollars towards renewable energy though I don't know how it is going to be distributed among different projects. For instance, I don't know how much is going to wind power, solar power and other sources. I also don't know how it is going to be distributed around the country. Will wind turbine money be funding projects around the country, including not just the mid-west, but also states like Maine? Will solar projects only be constructed in the southwestern U.S. or will less sunny states be considered? Will this money only fund large projects or will it also be used to fund wind turbines and solar panels at people's houses? I am not sure about how much of this money is tax breaks and how much will be direct incentives.
I might also research how Obama's 'smart grid' will power homes and businesses across the country, many are far from wind and solar power producing areas. The smart grid is 'smart' because, unlike the current electric grid, it will be able to shift power all around the country. I would like to research more about how the system will work. Solar and wind power from rural areas will be transmitted to more urban areas. The grid should be strengthened so the system will be able to handle the extra energy demanded when everybody is driving electric cars. I'm not sure if this need is part of the stimulus package.
These are important points to research before I can draw final conclusions. How green our electric supply will be, and how the electricity will be delivered to the country's homes, will be crucial factors for the success of electric cars.
I would like to interview someone, possibly at Chewonki, who owns an electric car, especially if they use renewable resource technology for charging. My first question would be, "how long does it take to charge your car and how far does it go on a single charge?". I would also ask them about how the cold affects the batteries charge and usage time. I wonder if they use alternative energy sources to charge the car. I would also ask their opinion of the new electric cars being produces by major automakers. I think this would be a good way to conclude my blog.
One of my first tasks will be to find specific information about the stimulus plan, including the amount of money that will go to specific projects affecting electric cars. For electric cars to be better for the environment, the electricity they use must come from clean sources. I know some money is going towards renewable energy sources needed to cleanly support a nation full of plug-in electric cars.
President Obama's stimulus bill has given billions of dollars towards renewable energy though I don't know how it is going to be distributed among different projects. For instance, I don't know how much is going to wind power, solar power and other sources. I also don't know how it is going to be distributed around the country. Will wind turbine money be funding projects around the country, including not just the mid-west, but also states like Maine? Will solar projects only be constructed in the southwestern U.S. or will less sunny states be considered? Will this money only fund large projects or will it also be used to fund wind turbines and solar panels at people's houses? I am not sure about how much of this money is tax breaks and how much will be direct incentives.
I might also research how Obama's 'smart grid' will power homes and businesses across the country, many are far from wind and solar power producing areas. The smart grid is 'smart' because, unlike the current electric grid, it will be able to shift power all around the country. I would like to research more about how the system will work. Solar and wind power from rural areas will be transmitted to more urban areas. The grid should be strengthened so the system will be able to handle the extra energy demanded when everybody is driving electric cars. I'm not sure if this need is part of the stimulus package.
These are important points to research before I can draw final conclusions. How green our electric supply will be, and how the electricity will be delivered to the country's homes, will be crucial factors for the success of electric cars.
I would like to interview someone, possibly at Chewonki, who owns an electric car, especially if they use renewable resource technology for charging. My first question would be, "how long does it take to charge your car and how far does it go on a single charge?". I would also ask them about how the cold affects the batteries charge and usage time. I wonder if they use alternative energy sources to charge the car. I would also ask their opinion of the new electric cars being produces by major automakers. I think this would be a good way to conclude my blog.
Sunday, March 1, 2009
Relative Participation- Extra Credit Opportunity
Liam,
I found your blog extremely interesting and informative. It really covers a lot of ground regarding the ongoing development of alternative fuel source autos.
I appreciated the blog addressing this subject in a general way, focusing on fuel cell v. plug-in electric v. plug-in hybrid cars, while incorporating news and information about specific vehicles being developed and tested by specific manufacturers.
After reading the blog, I feel like I have a very good sense of, not only which technology will likely prevail, but also the specific vehicles that will be offered in the near future, and their strengths and weaknesses. This information has started me thinking about what kind of car I might be buying in five or ten years, and even what model.
It is interesting that you started with a stronger focus on fuel cell cars, but gradually shifted attention more towards plug-in hybrids when you realized that they seemed the stronger, more economical, long term option. It is also commendable that you kept a very open mind on the topic, allowing your views to evolve rather than sticking with pre-set ideas and just looking for supporting views and information.
The coverage of ancillary issues around these cars was also very helpful to the general topic, anticipating questions that naturally arise. Specifically, information about developing battery technology, the logistics of charging electric cars, necessary improvements to the electric grid, hydrogen production, and the development of hydrogen and charging stations, were all very helpful in grasping the scope of change to come with these new vehicles.
Charles Mullen
(father)
I found your blog extremely interesting and informative. It really covers a lot of ground regarding the ongoing development of alternative fuel source autos.
I appreciated the blog addressing this subject in a general way, focusing on fuel cell v. plug-in electric v. plug-in hybrid cars, while incorporating news and information about specific vehicles being developed and tested by specific manufacturers.
After reading the blog, I feel like I have a very good sense of, not only which technology will likely prevail, but also the specific vehicles that will be offered in the near future, and their strengths and weaknesses. This information has started me thinking about what kind of car I might be buying in five or ten years, and even what model.
It is interesting that you started with a stronger focus on fuel cell cars, but gradually shifted attention more towards plug-in hybrids when you realized that they seemed the stronger, more economical, long term option. It is also commendable that you kept a very open mind on the topic, allowing your views to evolve rather than sticking with pre-set ideas and just looking for supporting views and information.
The coverage of ancillary issues around these cars was also very helpful to the general topic, anticipating questions that naturally arise. Specifically, information about developing battery technology, the logistics of charging electric cars, necessary improvements to the electric grid, hydrogen production, and the development of hydrogen and charging stations, were all very helpful in grasping the scope of change to come with these new vehicles.
Charles Mullen
(father)
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